In this episode of On Record PR, Jennifer Simpson Carr goes on record with Meghan Warren, Director and Principal of Burke Lawyers, to discuss the importance of sharing knowledge to help businesses prepare for any legal issues on the horizon. Meghan is a commercial and business lawyer in advice, transaction and disputes with more than 16 years of experience and rare industry capabilities. She is based in Melbourne, Australia.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: It’s so great to see you. I had the pleasure of not only meeting you but getting the chance to spend some quality time with you at the 2023 Women, Influence & Power in Law (WIPL) Conference in New Orleans.
Meghan Warren: That was such a great conference and a great opportunity to connect with like-minded women in the industry. It was highly valuable, and I would highly recommend it.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: We both keep in touch with many amazing women that we’ve met, so that’s been fantastic.
Meghan Warren: I am hoping to make it this year. If not this year, then definitely next year. It’s going to be on my agenda moving forward for sure.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: One of the things I was fascinated to learn about you is that you’re one of the few lawyers in Australia with a New York State Bar attorney license, which allows you to continue your practice in the U.S. in addition to the great work that you do as an Australian legal practitioner.
Can you tell our listeners a little bit about Burke Lawyers? Also, what was the driving force for the dual admission in Australia and New York?
Burke Lawyers is about 10 minutes outside of central Melbourne. Our practice areas are predominantly in commercial and business, disputes, advice, transactions, property, and wills and estates. They’re our core areas. We have about 20 lawyers. We’re small in the scheme of U.S. law firms, which are huge, but from the Australian perspective, we’re kind of a large small firm, if you like. That’s a real snapshot of the firm.
Although we’re based in Melbourne, our clients are all over Australia. Given my U.S. qualification, there’s a number of clients we have that are based globally. They might be Australians who have moved overseas to Paris or the U.S., and they have Australian ties still, but also international ties. They might be clients who are more internationally based who are looking to come to Australia and set up a business or expand their business into Australia, or potentially there’s a dispute that’s occurring that’s got an Australian tied to it as well.
In terms of what drove me to be qualified in two jurisdictions, I’m told it’s something that I always said I wanted to do during my admission in Australia many years ago. My best friend said to me, “You said on that day that you wanted to sit the New York bar exam because it was the hardest exam in the English language.” I thought that would be a good challenge. Around four years ago, I had a client based here in Australia who ended up in a dispute with a party in the US over a contract, essentially. It was a breach of contract type of claim and he found himself in hot water.
He came to see me, and we needed to find him representation in the U.S. to defend this litigation that he was a party to. We engaged counsel on the ground there in the U.S. I wasn’t qualified at this point to practice, but I was flying over there a bit for things like the mediation and the interim stages of the litigation. The client said to me, “Why can’t you get up and advocate for me in the court when we’re over there? You know this case better than anyone.” I said, “I’m not allowed. I’m not licensed. That’s why we’ve got to have counsel engaged here as well.”
I started to think, “If this goes on to trial, I could be one of the counsel that’s able to make submissions and legal arguments in the court in the states as well.” That was the trigger for me to start studying for the bar exam in New York. I did six months of study in my spare time after work and then sat the exam. In the meantime, the litigation was resolved and I ultimately ended up not going and putting any positions in court over there in relation to that case. But I did get my qualification out of it, thankfully, passing on the first go, which I’ve heard is hard for a foreign lawyer.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: That’s fantastic, and what a great story that you’ve mentioned it so long ago in your career, and fast-forward to now.
Meghan Warren: I know. I didn’t remember that, but then when I was studying my best friend had said, “You said this on your day of admission, that you wanted to do this.” And I was like, “Oh, okay.” I think with the New York bar particularly, it’s got more international recognition. I thought that’s probably the one that I would do, even though it’s hard, but I think all of them are. With any kind of bar exam these days, they’re testing you to the max.
Given the differences between the Australian legal market and the U.S. legal landscape, how do you stay abreast of the developments and changes, and how are you continuously learning so that you can advise your clients on these different landscapes?
It is a lot of work, in a nutshell. It’s about knowing the spaces that you can work within and not. I think that’s the real key. I certainly don’t profess to know everything about Australian law or U.S. law, but I have areas that I’m confident in where I can add value for the client and advise them.
If I feel that there are areas that are issues, I try issue spotting early and say, “Okay, you need some expert tax advice, particularly on how the US and Australian jurisdictions work together on tax, to make a decision about how to proceed.” Then I’ll connect with appropriate tax advisors, whether it’s on the U.S. side or Australian side or both, to fill those gaps.
That’s why it’s so important for me to make those trips to the States ideally a couple of times a year to connect with other advisors in different areas, so that I’ve got a good network of people that I trust I can quickly go to in terms of advice for clients when they might need that. I’m certainly not a one-stop shop for all their needs in that sense. That’s helpful for me in terms of continuous learning as well and making sure that I’m building that network and then always staying in touch.
Even this morning, I had a memo from a colleague in New York who’s always writing about recent cases – forum selection, merger clauses, and the New York position at the moment based on some case law that’s been coming out. Knowledge-sharing with colleagues is super important as well.
I did a presentation for the American Bar Association with a couple of colleagues, and now I’m looking to write an article with one of them about the differences between the US and Australian jurisdictions. It’s on me to be proactive and make sure that I keep on top of the knowledge across the jurisdictions in my areas. There’s no easy way to do that other than just working, reading a lot, and making sure I stay connected.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: Those network connections are so important because we are all in different spaces throughout the day with different areas of expertise and conversations that we’re having. When you have that solid trusted network, I can imagine that it’s easier for you to keep up to date because you’re sharing knowledge so consistently.
Meghan Warren: One of the benefits with what I do is that initial triage with the client of identifying the problem or the advice they’re looking for and unpacking the different parts of it – unpacking where we can assist or where we might need to connect with a tax specialist or a health regulation specialist in Chicago or whatever it might be. That plan at the start is super important to make sure the client knows where they’re heading and the different types of advisors who might need to be involved, and that helps to set the plan moving forward.
In your current role, you have a focus on assisting professionals and businesses in medical, health and in the science industries. Can you elaborate on the unique challenges that your clients may face this year in this area and how they’re preparing?
I think this is an interesting one, and we’ve seen it growing from COVID, but even more in 2024, the expanding digitization and outsourcing of healthcare delivery is something that we see a lot with clients, whether it’s current clients or new clients coming to us. Within Australia but also internationally, businesses and professionals that might be medical or health-qualified that are looking to provide services within Australia but also looking to provide services to U.S. consumers or UK consumers – how do they do that? How do they safely do that? Can it be done safely? What are the different regulations that apply? It can be an absolute minefield. It’s trying to get different jurisdictions of the law to catch up with that digitization of service delivery. Particularly in health, it’s fraught with a lot of potential issues because it’s so highly regulated. Coming out of that to increase competition.
We’ve had clients come to us who are not necessarily medical or health-qualified, but they’re entrepreneurs and they want to enter the healthcare space in terms of digital delivery of services. There’s increased competition, not just from other medically qualified people or healthcare-qualified people, but others as well – just entrepreneurs who are in tech and want to platform on that. In terms of the market for those clients, that’s another increasing space that we’re seeing.
Also, there’s an increase in regulation, compliance, and law generally. That’s something that clients always need. It’s not stagnant advice. There’s always a new development or a new recommendation around healthcare and how it’s delivered, whether it’s a code or a guideline that the client needs assistance with. That’s something that’s not new in 2024 necessarily, but it’s a constant.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: It sounds like you’re constantly looking around the corner for clients or looking at their horizon at what might be coming up next that they should be thinking about.
Meghan Warren: Those are things that I think a lot of clients are not necessarily having to deal with in terms of a problem that might be right in front of them, but it’s something that they need to be aware of working in the industry.
What are you preparing for in 2024 that you think will have the greatest impact on your legal practice?
Personally, I’m having a baby this year, so that’s something that’s right in front of me now and that I’m preparing for, my second bub. For me, the last couple of months have been about making sure that the firm is geared to carry on seamlessly without me, which I think we are. That’s one thing that personally is a bit of an achievement the last couple of months anyway – making sure that we’ve got a good team here around us, which I feel really confident about. In terms of 2024 for clients, what we can do is really on the back of those issues that I talked about.
One of the key things is for new or current clients who are thinking about perhaps starting a new business or getting into a contract with a new commercial party, it’s important to always involve us or a lawyer early, even if it’s just about jumping on a call and having a 30-minute or an hour chat about what they’re thinking and where things are. That’s the biggest thing that we find adds value and helps the client to build that relationship so we’re here when they need us.
I see clients not involve us as early as they should. It’s that hesitancy to involve a lawyer until they really need to. But one of the key things that we like to add is building that relationship and even giving initial advice early. It can help point them in the right direction. I find that helps make our job heaps easier, but also, it adds so much value for them.
Jennifer Simpson Carr: That’s fantastic, and I know the goodwill and the trust that builds with your clients is because you’re demonstrating that you’re constantly thinking about what might be coming up from them next. And certainly, we are sending all of our congratulations and well wishes to you as your family grows in the very near future.
Meghan Warren
Learn more about Burke Lawyers: https://www.burkelawyers.com.au/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meghanwarrenlaw/
